（文末附上英文訪談內容/ English version of this interview is down below.）
一只包包需要具備哪些特質，才有資格叫作IT bag？
夠多時尚名人拿它拍照、夠常在Instagram上看到不同照片tag它、夠容易斷貨、夠常被包色……這些都只是小菜一碟，對我來說，最強的IT bag得夠經典、夠有辨識度，就連相隔十個箭步的距離，只是輕輕一瞥，我都能立刻喊出設計師的名字。
翻開厚厚一本時尚史，能自稱IT bag的包款數量並不多，而它們大部分都來自米蘭、巴黎等歐洲國家的老時裝屋品牌，「大」設計師頂著「大」光環、博取「大」版面、贏得「大」買氣，聽起來合理到不行，就跟滾雪球的道理一樣。不過你注意到了嗎？我是說「大部分」。
BOYY於2004年創立，來自加拿大和泰國的銀色夫妻檔Jesse Dorsey與Wannasiri Kongman，以極具標誌性的「粗皮帶方釦包」，短時間內獲得全球時尚狂熱分子的瘋狂愛戴，街拍潮人為了拍照不撞包，紛紛選擇著用當時在歐美地區仍屬小眾的BOYY，想不到在極強辨識度和極高曝光度的雙重效應加乘之下，品牌聲譽從此一飛沖天，兩人更因此雙雙入選泰國時尚界史上最具影響力人物的Top 30。
究竟小小一只包，背後藏有多大的創作學問？來自不同文化背景的Jesse和Wannasiri，當初為何會在設計「方釦包」上達成共識？跟著Wazaiii的腳步，一同前往BOYY位於米蘭、絕美時髦的Showroom兼自家客廳，向夫妻兼工作搭檔的兩人取本時尚經！
「Jesse來自加拿大蒙特婁，Wannasiri來自泰國曼谷，BOYY在紐約時裝週引起熱潮，為何最終選擇將Showroom落腳至米蘭？」
Jesse/ 『這是個很好的問題，因為其實我們就住在樓上，哈哈！大概兩年前，我們興起了到巴黎拓展品牌規模的念頭。接著我花上整整一年，只為了尋找最完美的位址，當我第一眼看到外面這座庭院時，我知道，就是它了，當然一年當中會有四天，這個地方會被拿來當作BOYY的Showroom，但大多數的時候，這裡是我們寬敞又明亮的私人客廳。』
「這麼說來，內部的裝修工程也是由您一肩扛起？」
Jesse/ 『在我整頓整座空間前，上一次內部改造是在1973年，由一位米蘭的粗野主義建築師著手設計（Wazaiii小教室：粗野主義即一種現代建築流派，主要以不修邊幅的鋼筋混凝土刻意打造沉重粗躁的視覺張力）。我很喜歡他留下的那些，極具現代感又有點怪異的空間元素，不過我需要一個「新門面」，所以是的，我認為我參與的後期裝修部分，的確讓整體風韻更靠近了BOYY以及我們的風格一些。』
「您會以這裡任何裝飾性的物件，好比角落那只「玉石雕塑」，做為設計包包的靈感嗎？我認為石料和包包非常相襯！」
Jesse/ 『Umm……Well……會的，老實說，我們最近有一些關於石料和包包結合的設計雛形，到時推出後，你們可以期待看看成品是否符合期待，哈哈！（Wazaiii編輯：這個伏筆真是埋得大又深啊！）』
「當然！談到BOYY的設計，首先，為何會選擇『皮帶方釦』？」
Wannasiri/ 『這其實是我的點子。我曾經有一條非常喜歡的古著皮帶，我覺得它誇張的方釦總能完美妝點我的穿搭，所以當時我想，我也要有一顆長這樣的包，因為市場上找不到，後來索性就自己設計出第一款Sample，原因就這麼簡單。那時Jesse和我看到經典又極有結構感的方釦出現在Sample上時，我承認，一開始它們有些粗糙、不那麼完美，但我總有預感它將會……』
Jesse/ 『它一定會中。』
Wannasiri/ 『沒錯，果然中了，哈哈！』
「了解。對於一個時尚品牌而言，要找到極具標誌性的Look不是件容易的事，但你們做到了，而且自此季季出現不同款的方釦手包，身為設計師，您的感覺是？」
Jesse/ 『時尚有其高潮與低潮，當然設計師的心緒也隨之起伏。我記得在2015年，我們曾停下腳步、認真思考BOYY的「品牌哲學」，我們在紐約創立品牌時，每隔六個月就必須推出新的「Something」，這指的不只是設計，我們還得以這個「Something」為榮，一切的潛規則讓我們匆忙到彷彿在跑步機上不斷加速，到最後，我們失去了設計本身的趣味。後來我們發現，其實我們的銷售額主要是仰賴零售、而非買手的批發，這代表「消費者喜歡的是BOYY的本質，迎合主流市場的趨勢並未奏效」，因此我想，與其每六個月就推出12到15種不同風格的新包包，我們更想做的是，創造「1種」更具辨識度、更歷久彌新的經典包款。』
「然後方釦包就成功了！」
Jesse/ 『非常幸運的，我們做到了。自從皮帶方釦的點子問世之後，我們仍然推出了許多其他系列，不過「方釦包」仍然是我們的主線，也是消費者最能產生共鳴的產品。我覺得一個設計師是否成功，關鍵不在你能丟出幾百萬個新點子，而是消費者是否能夠不看品牌，一眼就能認出這是你的設計。』
↑除了最廣為人知的方釦包，BOYY近幾季也慢慢跨足了鞋履設計。（走進Showroom前，導覽員會詢問女生們腳的尺寸，讓每個女孩都能穿上BOYY的慢慢逛，很會！）
「您們由誰負責較多設計的部分？或是每個系列都是出自共識？」
Jesse/ 『嗯……有時候她會覺得我的靈感很無趣，相對亦然，品牌現在主要由我操刀，不過我會說，方釦系列是Wannasiri和我的集大成，她有她源源不絕、翻玩面料及靈感的創新想法，我則是以較為實際的思考邏輯加以落實。當然，我們並非總能附和彼此，但雙人合作的最大收穫就是，我們學會尊重彼此的想法，而且意識到時間總是向前推進，意見不合不代表世界末日，誰都沒必要挾冤記仇。』
「以夫妻身分一起工作的感覺是？（甜笑）」
Wannasiri/ 『感覺……感覺糟透了，哈哈！（向左一看，幸好老公沒變臉）跟另外一個人一起打理一個品牌，你必須認真花時間和他相處，了解他的個性和做事習慣。我會說和Jesse共事的最大好處是，我可以直接說出最真實的意見，但你也知道，我們不可能無時無刻都認同彼此的建議，而當有任何一方非常堅持某個概念時，我們會妥協。』
Jesse/ 『以夫妻的身分工作，讓我們可以一起成長、一起藉由旅行增廣見聞……』
Wannasiri/ 『一起吸收、接觸新鮮的人事物……』
Jesse/ 『一起看世界。』
（Wazaiii編輯：OK，這一連串的默契接詞真是始料未及）
Wannasiri/ 『大概是因為我們大多數的時間都待在一起、體驗相同的生活模式，我總覺得，當我的腦袋裡蹦出某些新點子時，Jesse同時也會，非常有趣！比方說，幾年前我們有了第一個孩子，那時Jesse和我都非常著迷於兒童的讀物和玩具，某天我們驚覺對方也有相同的靈感，索性就讓靈感馳騁，就在兩季前，我們創造了一個新的包款系列，名為「TOYS 玩具」。』
↑BOYY SS18的TOYS Collection，靈感來自心愛兒子一歲時散在一地的玩具和小人偶。
Jesse/ 『當時我們的兒子才一歲大，正逢最可愛的年紀，他玩具上出現的正方形和三角形，竟然就不自覺的成為我們的創作靈感，看到那些童趣的圖形與線條和BOYY的經典方釦擺在一起，總能讓我們想起和寶貝兒子的美好回憶，同時又相當時髦。』
↑孩子一直是Jesse和Wannasiri的生活重心，就連兩人到紐約出差一週、或是窩在工作室三四天也得帶上他呢！
「所以，可以說是打造這麼一座時尚帝國背後的秘密，就是您們分享生活，並把任何有趣的點子放到設計中，這麼簡單？」
Jesse/ 『沒錯。BOYY反映了Wannasiri跟我的成長，因此，如果追溯到2006年，你可以發現品牌的確正在進化，我們從來就不自我定型，「這就是我們的消費結構、我們必須忠於這個定價、這群人才是我們的主力客群……」我們從來不管這些，因為我們相信品牌在改變的同時，消費者亦然。當然，某些企業底下的品牌必須死守部分原則，這我尊重也理解，不過對BOYY而言，反其道而行反而更通行無阻，不仰賴主流的商業模式，是我們保持熱忱的訣竅，也是消費者對我們不斷感到新鮮的不二法門。』
「您們大多都如何拾獲設計靈感？好比說，BOYY最新的系列靈感竟是來自『外帶包裝』？」
Wannasiri/ 『我們真的很愛吃中國料理，尤其是「點心」，當我們還在紐約時，一個禮拜會有好幾餐是在很不錯的中國餐館中解決。來到巴黎之後，我們實在是太想念中國料理了，有一天我看著我們的最新包款，心想：「天啊！這也太像餛飩了吧！」接著我看向另外一款包，它讓我想起包著糯米雞的荷葉，於是你猜怎麼著？我告訴Jesse，這個系列就該被命名為「Take-away」，就這麼簡單。（Wazaiii編輯：哈哈哈哈哈！希望將來可以出現蘿蔔糕包或菠蘿油包，我要買！）有時候，規律的日常有可能會被昇華成精彩的創作概念，這一季，我們希望打造中式餐館的迷人氛圍，時尚其實不需要太深奧的設計理念，有時天外飛來一筆的鬼點子，比什麼抽絲剝繭都精彩。』
「如今您們的商品在全球的銷售平台上，都相當受部落客、編輯與時尚迷們的追捧、愛用，在這波病毒式的熱潮降臨之前，您們是否曾經試圖做過任何嘗試或努力？」
Wannasiri/ 『不，完全沒有，這一切來得太快，快到我還是無法相信發生了什麼事。很多人說我們的包包很上相，當時我想，的確，部落客們很喜歡用我們的包包拍穿搭，但這股熱潮遲早會退燒，不過沒有，直到現在，人們還是不斷的在Instagram上拍我們的包包、支持我們的設計！』
Jesse/ 『我覺得比起其他歐美及亞洲品牌，我們算是略有優勢，因為我們在Instagram和Twitter上都比別人搶先一步，另外，在社群媒體的活躍度上，亞洲可以說是領先了美國整整至少一年，而其中又屬曼谷躋身社群使用之冠。這份優勢和我們的公關操作默默形成了一條連結，老實說，我們從來就沒有和任何公關公司正式合作過，不知為何，他們遵守典型的行銷程序，卻無法在BOYY看到績效，反倒是我們傾聽自己的聲音，才更迅速的登上國際舞台，Instagram的盛行真的幫了我們許多。』
↑由於接觸Instagram、Twitter的社群平台的時機較早，BOYY不僅超前許多競爭對手、率先樹立品牌形象，一路累積而來的好口碑也讓各式經典包款，成為眾部落客的跑時裝週的穿搭必備單品。
Wannasiri/ 『我仍然不敢相信每天都會有人Tag我們的Instagram帳戶，每天。若要深究原因，我想，Instagram有種魔力，某個偶像拿了某只包，人們就也想擁有他，這就是BOYY成功的原因，因為就連我，也常常感受到這種強烈的購物慾。』
「我也是！哈哈！最後我得問，為何當初會將品牌命名為『BOYY』？」
Wannasiri/ 『BOY, B, O, Y, 其實是我在泰國的小名，在我來到紐約、認識Jesse之後，我都跟別人用Wannasiri，也就是我的真名自我介紹，除了他，沒人知道我的小名。』
Jesse/ 『當我們開始創業之後，我們希望可以將品牌哲學鞏固為「現代中性」，接著我們突然想到我太太的小名，但是我們總不能替「BOY」註冊商標，畢竟它已是個現有的英文單字，所以我們決定在後面多加一個「Y」，藉此強化品牌精神，其實命名原因僅是如此而已。』
Wannasiri/ 『我們也會用男性的名字來替包包取名，比如Karl、Bobbie、Devon等等，畢竟當時其他品牌都是以女性名字來取名。』
↑由上而下分別是大BOBBY、中BOBBY、小BOBBY、DEVON、KARL、DEON、FRED，果然清一色都是用常見的男生名字替包包命名，真的超酷！
「未來BOYY是否會將品牌觸角延伸至設計『服裝』系列？」
Jesse/ 『我能保證，我們一定會的，但就算我們有這個念頭，也不代表明年的發表會上一切就能水到渠成，時尚對我們來說，是一種相當自然的演進過程，像我前面提到的，我們並不想過得太趕，況且，多設計服裝對於一個包件品牌而言，等同於是多創立一間公司耶！』
Wannasiri/ 『對我們而言，現階段我們想好好專注在發展新鞋履的系列上，希望每件單品都很強勢、很有辨識度，當我們腳步放得越慢，才能步步都踏得紮實。』
↑現在BOYY的設計重心仍放在包包和鞋子，但兩人都不排斥將來有可能跨足服裝線。（Wazaiii編輯：沒關係，總有一天等到你！）
「我非常欣賞您們在變化多端、高速緊張的時尚產業中，找到自己的慢活步調。」
Jesse/ 『謝謝你。對我們來說，小小的成功就夠讓人滿足了，我們不必仰賴任何店家、消費者、品牌或買手，我們做自己，愈是放慢培育過程、採收的成果就預示肥美豐厚。我此生做過最正確的決定，就是不跟隨時尚潮流，頭也不回的做好自己。』
後記
所以說，也不是每個大紅大紫的人，初衷都是功成名就。
和兩人碰頭後，令Wazaiii編輯最詫異的是，原來他們的成功僅是無心插柳。不過當一般人通常會選擇打了蛇、乾脆隨棍上時，Jesse和Wannasiri反倒停下腳步，重新思考品牌在嗜血又急促的時尚戰場中，定位何在？樂趣何在？
不急著賺飽銀兩，而是任心靈富有，不搶著趕上潮流，而是自帶風潮、任人跟隨。
我特別喜歡Jesse和Wannasiri之間的氛圍，很微妙。他們並肩而坐，中間卻彷彿隔了層清亮雪花，偶爾炙熱的凝視可以融化它，但大多時候，兩人的互動相當具有靈氣，不熟識他們的旁人，只得被阻絕在外。
整段訪問中，對於傳說中的「IT bag」兩人隻字未提，或許對他們來說，那個IT不是指Inevitable（不可避免），而是Immortal（永世不朽）。
（English Version）
Coming from Montreal and Bangkok, gaining reputation in New York, why do you end up locating your showroom in Paris?
It’s a good question because we actually live upstairs, haha! We had the idea of moving here and extending our business scale about 2 year ago and it’s for sure a new chapter for us. Then I spent an entire year trying to find a perfect place, at the first glance of this garden. I just couldn’t say no. Yeah this is gonna be a showroom 4 times a year, but mostly, it’s our giant living room.
So you did the renovation on your own as well?
I renovated the entire space since the last time anyone had done it was in 1973 by a Milanese brutalist architect. I was fascinated by the modernistic and strange interior designs, but I needed a major new face. In a nutshell, I’d say it’s worthy investment.
Would you put any of your decorating pieces, like the “jade annex” over there, into your bag designs as an inspiration? I think stones flatter bags so well!
Umm……Well……Yes. To be honest, we have had several ideas encompassing stones recently, so you guys can be expecting some up to your aesthetics, haha!
For certain! As for your designs, firstly, why the “buckles”?
It’s like my thing, my secret crush. I used to own a vintage belt which has always been my favorite, I love how it garnished my look so I really wanted to have a bag with a buckle on it. Then I made it my own, plain and simple. Jesse and I thought, ok, let’s put a classic and structured buckle on a bag, and everything came after. Our first samples were rough and unsophisticated, but I could just feel that “This is it!” and it’s gonna be……
Something.
Yeah. And it really does now.
Got it. It’s not easy for a brand to find their iconic look, and you stuck with your buckle. How do you feel about it?
You know, fashion is like a wave with its ups and downs. At a moment, we took a pause and went through our “brand philosophy” in 2015. When we started our brand in New York, we had to present something in every 6 months. It meant not only should we design, but we ha to have faith in it, which was like running on a treadmill with everything in rush. Then, we lost the fun of what we were doing. At that time, we discovered that our success lied in our retail stores instead of on the wholesale, and I was like “People love us for being us, so let’s just do things in OUR way.” In result, we knew we had to come up with something “iconic” and “timeless” rather than trying to turn out 12 to 15 “new” styles every 6 months. It just doesn’t work like that.
And then it worked!
Yeah fortunately it did! Ever since we’ve introduced several new styles but our buckle collection is definitely our staple and what people can recognize and resonate with. So we learned that as a designer, it’s not about you’re capable of throwing out millions of new ideas; however, it all comes down to what you can produce to have customers remember you.
Who took charge in the design apartment or is it always a mutual consensus?
Well……Sometimes I am inspired and want to try something that might bores her, and vice versa. Maybe I’m still taking more charge but I feel like the buckle collection is the culmination of both of us. It was like she had the ideas of how to utilize certain materials and I have my methods to executing them practically. We don’t always agree on everything, that’s for sure, but I guess time always moves forward, and there’s no need to hold grudge like it’s the end of the world.
How does it feel working as a couple?
It’s……(pause) It’s horrible. HAHA! It’s like, you have to learn how to work with another person and be willing to spend time with him/her running a brand whatsoever. I’d say the positive thing of working with Jesse is that I can just spit out my honest opinions, but when it comes to either one of us insisting on certain concepts, we compromise.
Yeah. Working as a couple enables us to grow together, to travel together.
To absorb new things together.
And see the world together.
Sometimes I feel like when I have some ideas in mind, he’d have the same, probably because we ‘ve seen and experienced things together. For example, when we had kids years ago and we were both so into the children books and toys, we instantly let the ideas flow and created a collection named “TOYS” two seasons ago.
We took our son’s toys when he was 1 year old as the inspiration. We love how the squares and triangles interact with our buckle and become sort of reminiscence of our memories.
So both of you share life and put what’s interesting to you into your design, that’s the secret to your empire?
Yeah, BOYY really reflects the revolution of Wannasiri and I growing and aging together; consequently, if you traced from 2006, it’s obviously a evolution among the brand. We both agree that we should never pigeonhole ourselves like “This is our demographic. We need to stick to this price point and we need to stick to focus on this sort of customers.” We don’t do that, because we’re evolving as people and our products are gonna evolve. I know for some corporate brands that have to stick to these rules but as for us, doing things in the opposite works the best. This is how we stay interested in what we’re doing and keep our customers interested.
How do you guys get your inspiration most of the time For instance, your latest collection is inspired by “take-away bags”?
We just love Chinese food, especially “Dim-Sum”. When we were in New York, we used to dine in a nice Chinese restaurant several times a week. We enjoy and miss Chinese food so much, and one day, we saw our new bags and I was like “It looks like Won-Ton!” and then there’s another bag called lotus for it remind me so much of the lotus leaf rapped with the sticky rice so much! And I was like “You know what? I’m gonna name this collection after take-away.” It’s just that simple. Sometimes our daily routines may be elevated into our fantasy concepts, and in this season, we’d like to create the ambience of a Chinese lounge. It just came out of the blue.
Now your products are phenomenon on different platforms, is this what you intended to do before everything goes viral?
No! Not at all. I still can’t believe what has happened. Some people told me that or bags are photogenic, and I’d be like “Ok, bloggers do take pictures of our bags, but it’s gonna slow down sooner or later, the trend.” But, it didn’t. People still take photos of our collections now!
I think we had slightly more advantages because we were quick on Instagram, quicker than lots of brands in Asia, so is Twitter. Plus, Asia was at least a year ahead America regarding social media, everything was fast in Bangkok, especially apps. And then it all connects with our own PR, by that I mean, we’ve never really had a PR agency to work with. The typical procedures of the PR agencies just never work with us for some reasons, and we always succeed much better on our own. Instagram just expedites our career.
You know how often people tag our Instagram account? Everyday. Besides, Instagram has sort of a magic, even for me. When people see a bag held by an icon on Instagram, they want the bag too! I guess this also help us along our ways.
Why do you name your brand “BOYY”?
Boy, B, O, Y, is my nickname back in Thailand. And when I met Jesse in New York, I introduced myself to everyone with my real name, Wannasiri. So no one except for him knows my nickname.
When we started everything, we reinforced that our brand philosophy is towards the masculine modernity. And nickname popped up while we were discussing, and there’s no way we could trademark “BOY” for it being an existing vocabulary. So we just added a second Y to signify our brand. That’s it.
We also name our bag after some male names like Karl or Bobbie.
Would you expand your territories by designing clothing in the future?
Clothing? I’m sure we would one day, but not like everything would be on board next year. We don’t want to rush it even though it’s a natural evolution. It’s almost like starting a new company!
For us, right now we’re focusing on our shoe collections. We want every pieces to be strong and recognizable, so we have to take it slow and solid.
I like the way you guys remain self-composed within the fast, tense world, especially in the fashion industry.
Thank you. As I said, we share little success and we’re content with it. We don’t rely on certain stores, people, brands or buyers. We’re just being ourselves, acting slow in the big, fast world. For me, this is the best decision I’ve ever made.
Editor/ 責任編輯：Eddie Ma
◎Photo Via：Chris Yi, INSTAGRAM
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